From thesandtrap.com

A Few Months Later: Stack and Tilt

Posted August 1st, 2007 by Erik J. Barzeski

Stack and Tilt: a fad or a little bit closer to a universal golf truth? We’d like your feedback.

Three simple words – Stack and Tilt – have done about as much to turn the world of golf instruction upside down as anything in recent memory.

It’s the move that led the U.S. Open through three rounds this year. It’s the move that’s led to the resurgence of the careers of a number of pros, including former Masters champ Mike Weir. It’s a move pros have been adopting in quantity, and a move amateurs have been adopting with sometimes remarkable success.

It’s also been a few months since the Golf Digest article first hit newsstands. I postulated that a lot of the early success amateurs were experiencing was simply a result of a temporary short-circuiting of their brain and that, eventually, the old swing flaws would return. Perhaps that was a bit short-sighted…

My question for the S&T adoptees now is simply this: have your swing flaws returned? Or have you stuck with Stack and Tilt with improved ball-striking and scoring? Post in the comments below.

I scoffed at the Stack and Tilt swing (click the link above for a description) when I first saw it in print. Most of my reaction was due to the horrible “traditional swing” pictures that were displayed alongside the stack-and-tilt swings. “Only a big duffer swings like that!” I thought to myself. I also thought “if Stack and Tilt were so great, someone would have come up with it a long time ago. Tiger would probably be hitting the ball that way, and a bunch more golfers besides Aaron Baddeley would be using it.”

After all, when was the last true swing revolution? Hogan’s Five Lessons? They don’t come around every day, you know.

Without much consideration for Stack and Tilt, and as a long-time self-taught golfer, I’ve developed a slightly new swing myself this year. I used to pre-set my weight to the right, coil around my spine, and move through on the downswing. My swing worked, but it still required a good amount of timing on the lateral shift to the left in order to make solid contact.

This year, in addition to swinging a bit more upright and standing a bit closer to the ball and taller at address, I’ve given up on the idea of worrying about my weight shift at all. My swing is now fairly well centered: I simply swing the club back and up by rotating my shoulders, then back down and through, firing the hips through first. My weight shift still exists, but it feels a lot more automatic now. As the club and my body rotate back, my weight naturally moves a little that way. The opposite is true coming down, but until my arms pull my head up to the finish position, I like to feel as though my head stays relatively centered.

In thinking about it, I suppose I’ve adopted somewhat of a Stack and Tilt swing. Or perhaps I’ve adopted half of it: Stack. After all, I don’t have the dramatic inside takeaway, I don’t crush any cans, I don’t “pop up,” and I don’t feel as though I’m leaning one way or another, but I stay centered over the ball and just use rotational force to hit the ball.

I could go on for quite awhile, but I don’t want to get away from the central question: If you’ve taken on the Stack and Tilt swing, how are you doing now, a few months later? Have your old swing flaws returned? Do you have trouble hitting your driver? Are your misses less frequent, more frequent, better, or worse? How’s your distance? Is your contact better and more consistent?

1. Frustrated
   Posted 15 Aug 2008 at 10:29am #
2. For the ones who have had alot of success with the S&T. Can you sortof put it in laymen’s terms on how you start the backswing and downswing? Thanks.
3. <!–  –>TM
   Posted 15 Aug 2008 at 12:34pm #

   Frustrated: I haven’t looked at the DVDs or spent a lot of time analyzing the S&T method. I may not be doing it the “correct” way, but what I do has been working consistently for me.

   I set up with my weight *slightly* favoring my forward leg (irons only; with driver I’m centered).

   I take the club back smoothly, paying attention to a couple of things. (1) As my hips turn back, my forward knee moves forward, and my rear knee straightens somewhat, so that my hips move freely, a kind of “turntable” feeling of the hips. This keeps the hands and club moving back to the inside, as they should. (2) My rear (right) foot contact on the ground stays “light.” Although there is some weight on that foot, at no point do I feel that I’m pushing against it on the backswing. With a conventional swing, I’d feel weight transferring to the inside edge (on a good day, otherwise the outside edge) of the rear foot. With this swing I stay stacked on the forward foot.

   It’s a compact swing. I don’t need to try for a huge backswing to generate power, because ball contact is so good I get the distance I want anyway.

   As for the downswing, since the weight is already forward, there is no need to do any sort of forward weight shift. The hips just turn back and around toward the target and the swing uncoils and the club head whips through the impact zone, striking down into the ball. Keep the spine inclination angle constant. The S&T swing is very consistent with the old “swing in a barrel” advice. It feels compact and rotational, because it is.

   Again, this is my simple-minded version of it. Others, who have studied the DVDs, may want to correct what I say. But this works well for me.

    

4. <!–  –>Jerrold J
   Posted 15 Aug 2008 at 2:35pm #

   Frustrated–adding to FM with whom I agree, I do have the DVD’s and they are worthwhile. I started paying attention to the “accentuators” (sp?) especially the “flying wedge” and straightening the right arm through impact and suddenly generated a lot more power even though it usually results in a shorter follow through from a less hurried swing. As shown in the DVD, during the take away and to the complete backswing the shoulders are not level–but are at a much steeper angle. Last week I saw on TV a slow motion of the swing of one of the pros and as the commentators pointed out saw his shoulders move from a more or less level line on the back swing to a steeper angle on the swing (similar to the S & T position throughout,) so I decided to try it. When I do it smoothly in the swing, it counter acts the tendency to hook and produces a gentle draw. Also, a gentle use of the right arm bend and straighten gives me a crisp, easy chipping contact.

    

5. <!–  –>Golf-fore
   Posted 18 Aug 2008 at 2:01pm #

   When I saw the article on GD I read it several times and went to the driving range to try it but nothing positive came out of it. I guessed I did not get it. Two weeks ago I revisited it again and read forums about S & T. I noticed majority of those who tried it have something positive to say about it. I read the article again and took note of the tips posted and went back to the range. This time something good happened but also some bad ones. The bad ones are caused by clubhead being ‘too closed ‘ at the top of the backswing having my right palm facing the ground and severly closed at impact. The start of the backswing is a one-piece-takeaway is’nt it ? Conventionally, when you have your arms parallel to the ground the toe of the clubhead faces upward, is it the same in S & T ? Any help is appreciated. Thanks.

    

6. <!–  –>Guy Cammorata
   Posted 19 Aug 2008 at 10:21am #

   It has been a couple of weeks since my atrocious showing at my club championship and after much analysis , and another couple of rounds using the S&T ( for my irons only ) I have come to a couple of conclusions …1). If I am in the fairway and have an Iron in my hands , I use the S&T and have had huge success ( shot a 35 even par for nine on the tougher 9 at my home course) . 2). I still have to get my tee ball in play …when it is in play , my greens in reulation soar ( which I attribute to the S&T method which leads to much more solid iron contact and 3)…I intend on sticking w the S&T method …The whole idea behing the golf swing is to get your weight on and thru your left side at contact …The S&T setup does that for u b/4 you even take the club back …Your comments ,suggestions r welcome

    

7. <!–  –>Rennie
   Posted 19 Aug 2008 at 4:59pm #

   I have been using the S&T for about one year. Like most of you, my irons are much better (even the long ones) because I am stiking down on the ball and taking the divot in front of the ball. Because I am using the S&T with the woods, I have gotten way off on my consistancy with them because I do not want to take a divot but sweep the ground. I know that I have to work on my balance and finish with the woods. I will update when I accomplish this.

    

8. <!–  –>Rookat
   Posted 20 Aug 2008 at 9:54am #

   In a nutshell..Backswing Shoulder down,hands in weight forward..Downswing Arms straight, Tuck rearend under torso.
   My drives have really improved since I have managed to keep the flying wedge(right wrist angle) through impact with straight arms while swinging in a circle..Good Luck

    

9. <!–  –>Kent
   Posted 20 Aug 2008 at 1:19pm #

   First day using SAT was yesterday at the range. Read the GD articles and took the Pocket Tips to the range. After taking monster divots behind the ball on the first few tries, I adjusted by crushing the can with the left foot. BINGO! Misses were 10-15 yard fades, but no more hooks. Much better compression and almost every divot was after the ball. Hit a few thin shots, but overall I was very pleased. Distance gain was amazing – my 9 iron is usually 145, but it was flying 155-160.

   I could also dial in my misses much more quickly….draws/hooks were the result of not being properly stacked and fades/slices were the result of not exploding up during impact.

   With the driver the advice of other posters of choking up helped immensely. Still stuggling with the three wood, but I hope to work that out today at the range.

    

10. <!–  –>Bill
    Posted 20 Aug 2008 at 10:26pm #

    I’m a 7 index and I got the DVD’s and have had 3 driving range sessions so far with nice results. Yesterday I grabbed a cart by myself and took it to the course. Irons were really solid. On the driver, I think they do a poor job of explaining how to hit it on the DVD. I see on some pictures that they have moved the ball forward as should be the case with a driver IMO. But on the DVD, they advocate that ball position should be the same regardless of the club. Anyway, I used the still head/shoulder rotation part of SAT and just let the rest come natural. Moved the ball forward a couple of inches. This worked very well for me and I feel it was basically the same swing as with the irons.

    Any thoughts on SAT and the driver as far as your experiences? Thanks!